Verbal sparring over racism in malaysia

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  This verbal sparring below was from a You Tube video about the controversial non fasting kids in shower room but then it just branched into a racial discourse between a very convinced nationalistic view and a very reasoned counter jibe . 

  Who has the more valid reasoning , you decide......it still makes for an entertaining read , loved the caustic mockery in the tone on one side.

  
  

  The sparring started with this comment..

  
  

  
  

  JakartaJogja Citizen

  in indonesia public school, the student did not required to wear hijab, but many girls wear it because of their own will, when ramadhan month, many restaurant on the street remain open but they covered with the curtain . and when i was in high school my non-muslim friends can eat their lunch in the classroom. and we the Muslims do not feel uncomfortable at all with that. why they just don't eat in their classroom ? apa kalian tidak kuat puasa jika melihat orang lain makan dan minum ?
  
  
  

  grimweird

  It's political conditioning. In Indonesia, your government emphasised on homogenous integration and a society which does not infringe on the culture of it's individual peoples. In Malaysia, our government fosters division based on ethnicity and culture in order to sow distrust and fear among the races. A "divide and rule" strategy. Despite the governments exhortations that without them we would dissolve into race riots and anarchy, Malaysians by and large actually get along fine with each other.

  
  

  in reply to JakartaJogja Citizen

  
  
  
  
  

  MatSetia

  The fact is Malays,Chinese & Indians are all Immigrants 'Pendatang' except the True Bumis  who are the Orang Asli,who have been here thousands of years before we all came. How can a newly arrived Indo Muslim be classied Bumi ? compared to non-malays who cleared the land,died defending Malaya and built the country still discriminated ? Hopefully one day all be treated equally. As Malaysians we should be loyal to Country, our National Language Malay & respect each other & focus on harmony.

  
  

  
  

   
  

  grimweird

  That's right. In the end, we are all humans. We may have different ways of thinking, different religions and philosophies, but in the end we are all brothers. People who think they are better than others because of skin colour, country, religion, money or anything else are simply ignorant. The people who put children in a tiny room next to a toilet to eat their meals because they believe these kids religion is not as religious as their own has some serious problems to deal with.
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•  AdamTezz
  Funny thing is the Chinese over there speaks Indo while most of the Chinese in Malaysia despise Malay language... Integration much?

  in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  As far as the idea of integration and language is concerned. I believe far more Chinese and Indians can speak BM and even English well is far higher than Malays can speak (or is interested in speaking) anything other than Malay. I believe there's a reason for this and it has nothing to do with which race is smarter. I think it's more because certain parties WANT them to only understand Malay. These parties want to make sure their only source of information and education is the Malaysian version.

  in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  I don't care about other language, and I'm talking about Malay being the national language.

  in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  Of course you don't care. That's my point. The mentality taught is "You MUST speak the national language. If you are Malaysian, no other language is important. If you learn other languages then you are unpatriotic and should get out of the country." Right? Also... "We need not know about other cultures or other beliefs because our values and society is the best. All others are less important and following any other way of thinking will result in chaos and destabilize our country." Correct?

  in reply to AdamTezz

  
  

  
  

  (And here is where it gets interesting with name calling and profanities thrown in but one side kept cool...)

  
  
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  AdamTezz

  Asking to embrace our national identity is not implying that other language is unimportant. Do Japanese people think that English is useless when they embrace their national identity? Arguing with a liberal idiots like you is a waste of time

  in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  LOL! "Arguing" with an idiot like me, as you call it, is indeed a waste of time and effort for you. Maybe you should consider stopping before you hurt your cute little brain too much :) By the way, if you want to use English to insult me on the internet, may I suggest improving your grammar? Alternatively, use BM, I can understand and write perfectly well in either language.

  n reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  I'm not here to argue grammar. Stop trying to change the topic, liberal scum.

  Like I said, embracing our national identity is not implying that other languages or cultures useless or whatsoever. Most non-Malays refuse to embrace, desecrate our national language and religion on daily basis (this incident in this video is an example). It is clear to me that they don;t want to be Malaysians, but they want Malaysia to be like them. Chinasia perhaps

  in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  Angry now? :Like I said, how many non-Malays can speak BM well? This is of course in addition to their mother tongue AND English. So they are essentially trilingual. What about Malays? Now I'm not saying Malays are stupider. But they ARE more limited by language and consequently information and cultural barriers. Consequently they are easier to manipulate as they can only access local and often only mainstream sources of information. You for example are an excellent example of what can result.

  in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  Your kind is lucky enough that our ancestors didn't decide to rip your mother tongue away like how the did to the Indo-Chinese. Yet here you are showing your arrogance, thinking that you are smart with your Western liberal and atheistic thinking.

  Your face deserves to be spat on.

   in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  Thank you for reinforcing your own ignorance and racist image in this "argument" : By the way, if by "our ancestors" you mean the Malays, then it may interest you to know that they as a race were originally from southern China. As were most proto-Malays in the region. Thats INFORMATION. As to my arrogance, I'm sorry if I came across as such to you, I thought I was being rather polite :) Maybe your version of "arrogance" differs from mine. Luckily for me, you can't spit over the internet :
  
  

   in reply to AdamTezz
• MatSetia
  The fact is Malays,Chinese & Indians are all Immigrants 'Pendatang' except the True Bumis  who are the Orang Asli,who have been here thousands of years before we all came. How can a newly arrived Indo Muslim be classied Bumi ? compared to non-malays who cleared the land,died defending Malaya and built the country still discriminated ? Hopefully one day all be treated equally. As Malaysians we should be loyal to Country, our National Language Malay & respect each other & focus on harmony.
  AdamTezz

  Typical "liberal" argument.

  They came through natural migration and assimilated with the Nusantaran cultures, not through British occupations. Not only that, through corruption(by licking those Brit's balls) they managed to take most of the capitals(mines, factories). And now in this era they step on our national religion and language and expect the whole Nusantara to embrace their liberal culture.

  If I'm racist to speak the truth, then so be it.

   in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  LOL!!! You can't even READ... Please, read what I wrote carefully and in full... Also stop sabotaging the logic in your own arguments. Your credibility is already gone after all. You are making it too easy for me to make fun of you. But I still need some satisfaction from ridiculing you after all... C'mon, throw me a bone here... :P

  in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  You can't refute my statement then you ask me to re-read.. You are this pathetic? (ohh wait, most liberals are pathetic) I understand your statement completely, next you are going to say that Parameswara came from Indonesia therefore Malay Sultanates don't belong here?

  Why not bring the Neanderthal as well?

  Dumbfuck

   in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  *Sigh* This may be a stretch for you since you are obviously a racist and a wilfully ignorant person who disregards facts in favour of indoctrination and hate. But just search for "Sejarah Melayu" on the internet. The Neanderthals? They went extinct tens of thousands of years ago. Although in your case... :)

  in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  Call me a racist, sexist or rapist I don't fucking care. Facts will always remain as facts no matter how racist they are. Refute my statement or shut the fuck up.

  Sighing now? Fuck your feelings too

  Search for a guy named Tai Zee Kin in Facebook, he shall teach you Chinese liberal scum some respect towards the Nusantaran culture and the true meaning of integration and ASSIMILATION. He is the Chinese worth of my respect, while you deserves to be beheaded.

  in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird 

  Heh... Relax man. You might bust an artery. Also, isn't it the Puasa month? Don't be so angry lah. Afterward batal puasa. Mencarut so much already LOLZ!!! "Sabar itu separuh daripada Iman" right? Also, exactly how sure are you that I'm Chinese? Or in your vocabulary "Cina Babi"? I may possibly be a "Keling" y'know? So you see my dear racist friend I am well "Integrated" into your kind's idea of "1Malaysia" and "Assimilation". Pity you don't respect me. I'll make sure to cry you a river later :

   in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  I don't hate Chinese, I have many Chinese friends. I just hate liberal scums like you who worship whatever your European countries or the US do in the name of absolute freedom.

  So proud being Westernized much?

  Btw, Muslims go to war during fasting month in the past...

   in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  Now you're making up your own fantasy fiction. My, my, my. WHERE did you get these impressions of poor little me from? Was my plain logic unpalatable to your racist palate? Or the fact that I'm pounding you to the ground in this "argument" that you started and you have nothing else to throw at me but the evil, arch-fiend, Satanic "Budaya Barat" that your brainwashers drilled into you? :D Go to war? Yes. Insulted strangers and became furious because someone disagrees with them? No. Anything else?

   in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  Awwww tell me how not "Barat" you are now.

  You are pounding me? You can't even refute any of my facts, are like those feminists who love to pat themselves in the back?

  I know a liberal when I see one. So.. going clubbing this weekend? Zouk? Cool guy la you! So Barat! Perfect way of life eyh? All the people in Malaysia should embrace your style.

  Feeling like a nigger bro? Naiseeeeeee...

  in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  LOL!!! It's always morbidly fascinating to me how a xenophobic mind works and what sort of imagery it conjures up based solely on hate and ignorance. Tell me my dear misguided friend, what "facts" have you really presented other than the racial hate speech you were trained to use by your peers? Where will YOU be on the weekends if a "kafir" like me is allowed to ask without being beheaded? I'm just asking because I prefer facts to assumptions or fantasy :)

   in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  So smart! All religions are just fantasy to you, and deep in your hearts you just despise the fact that Islam is the official religion of Malaysia! But this is Malaysia, not USA. You can go to USA and pretend to be a nigger all you like. But in Malaysia, just shut the fuck up la... Pretending to be a Westerner here is not as cool as you think.

  Why are you so obsessed with Western culture? You don't even have the face to match with them.

  LOL

   in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  Wow... Is there ANYONE you don't hate? :So... Where are the "facts" you presented? Do you have ANY contribution other than hate, racism, cultural intolerance and your own twisted assumptions? No? Lastly, I don't despise Islam, I don't really even despise you for accusing me of so much with so little justification. Instead I forgive ALL your many "fitnah" against me. In the spirit of Ramadan, I ask that you forgive me if I made you angry with my excellent arguments and obviously superior logic.

   in reply to AdamTezz
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  AdamTezz

  I just told you dumbfuck, I just hate liberal dogs like you. Can't you READ?

  This canteen incident being blown out of proportion (fitnah) portraying that Islam is "oppressive" is just a pathetic rebuttal from your kind to back up your big brother Alvin Tan (bet you gonna say that yo don't support him. Haha liberals are two faced).

  My fact is simple, embrace and respect our national identity or get the fuck out :)

  And stop it with the pretty words and slogans. I don't buy them

  in reply to grimweird
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  grimweird

  Easy on the swearing on this holy month my friend. Surely you can get your "points" across without resorting to obscenities. You can right? : Also, I challenge you to find one, just one anti-islamic statement in the comments  Lastly, I've made my position plain in the "Alvin, Vivian didakwa hari ini, tidak dibenar ikat jamin" also by MalaysiaKini, look it up if it's not too much for your ego. Any other accusations or fitnah? Pretty "slogans"? Sorry, I thought you were a Muslim.

  in reply to AdamTezz

  
  

  
  

  
  

  Don't know about you but I am sold by grimweird and think i have to stand in his corner..

  
  
  
  
  

  from this you tube comment thread
  http://youtu.be/4SXE5mA3P0c
  
  
  

  

  
  
  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  Shows us here how stupid racism can be.
  http://brown-eyes-and-blue-eyes-racism-experiment-on-children.html

Hannah Yeoh: JOINT PRESS STATEMENT - WHAT WE MUST DO TO SAVE OU...

Full article - Hannah Yeoh: JOINT PRESS STATEMENT - 
 - WHAT WE MUST DO TO SAVE OUR CHILDREN FROM DYING IN VEHICLES 22 July 2013

Lop sided not mutual respect of our kids in national schools.?

What do this images suggest to you? Respect? At whose expense? Think rationally for a moment without being overly critical or damning.  OK , now take away the other factors, like being asked to eat in a dressing room,or washroom or thoughts on hygiene, or that it seems to be a cramped space for," i wonder how many non fasting children  have their meals there sharing the table" ,  or even if the environment is clean.
Place those considerations aside a moment.
 Still, there is something not right with this picture. It shows an arbitrary attitude and warped rationale in hiding away non fasting school children in a cramped room ,out of sight of the fasting children. Demanding respect on the premise that one group's interests and needs to be respected overrides all considerations. Showing emphasis  for one segment at the expense of the dignity of   the  other.


Consult our common sense for a moment. Then ponder upon the images again and try to decipher what you see.Not so much concern/emphasis as to the physical location but focus more on the thinking behind this rationale of the necessity to keep the children hidden away from sight out of consideration or need to respect the religious symbolism of the holy month of ramadan and fasting. .

   Is this  ethno/religo chauvinism being displayed? Many rational minded citizens are  neither outraged or resentful - but are  very alarmed.
 Imagine the the schoolchildren there and what they perceive of the situation.
What subtle message is being ingrained into their psyche? That the ones who fast are different and their needs outweigh the others. That  they are in a higher status because of their ethnic and religious backgrounds and  because they observe fasting?  Pre empting other considerations of the "lesser" communities.Having a sense of being protected and priviledged , feeling special and being reminded of it solely due to their  ethnic and by default religious background.

 What about the impressions of the children who do not need to fast ?
How do they see themselves ? Will they feel as if they are commiting an offensive act just having their meals and need to hide away like thieves who have done a dishonest act?
Just because they do not fast, it is like a guilty conscience is insinuated into them.
 It just feels like the "Us and Them" or " Your people  - My people" complex but the worrying part is that it is practiced in this national school. Is this an exception , an isolated incident or is it the norm ? Pertinent questions on the minds of worried parents from both the marjority community that are of reason and have a clear sense of justice and also the minority communities who have children in national schools.
  Slogans like "strength in diversity - integration - mutual respect -  reconciliation" are merely just that , platitudical slogans.

And another alarming factor is of the adults who have encouraged or implemented this exercise of quarantine of the non fasting children. The question that begs asking is if they realise the implications of this act on the impressionable young minds and the potential influence upon their perceptions of their very SELVES.

And what lead the administrators to conceive the notion to be overly protective. Or is it simply an imposition of the supremacy beliefs that needs no  explanation, a conviction of being  right and therefore justified in their beliefs to do as they see fit.   A reflection of the mindsets and thinking of the school administrators trained by our very own system of education. Products  of indoctrination or social engineering that began years ago.Manifesting in the approach on handling religious issues like these that places more priority on the needs of the marjority but brushing aside respect for other communities in a cavalier manner.

From the general  understanding of the spiritual ideals for fasting. It is to learn the values of  discipline , compassion for the destitute , spiritual purification.
  Isn't it reasonable to assume that teaching children the core spiritual values of fasting will be to allow them to practice self restraint and discipline when amongst those who do not fast.There is no need to group them together when non fasting kids have their meals, still - is there really a need to be so protective of the fasting children that others who have meals need to be hidden out of sight  away from them.

When the common sense solution is so simplistic , just designate areas for fasting children to rest at or spend time  during recess away from the school canteen.  A classroom or a hall , library or a nice comfortable cool area within the school compound , where all the children  can still mingle but of course no consuming of food in the place out of respect for the fasting month and fasting children ,respect out of genuine  courtesy for the religious significance of fasting during ramadan - which needs to be explained patiently to the children to foster a better understanding and hence sincerity in the sentiment -  respect not demanded from them and imposed arbitrarily. And surely not corralled into a cramp shower room or changing area to have meals out of sight. That is not mutual respect , it is demeaning to the non fasting children.
 The adults/school administrators  should have known better.Perhaps they may have meant well , still , have they gone overboard in trying to protect the sensitivities of the fasting  kids ?
It doesn't seem like it has been thought all the way through , considering both sides.
 They have now inadvertently offended the sensitivities of the parents and a large proportion of Malaysians by this unthinking deed ! Non- muslims and muslims alike feel unsettled by the crass manner in which the children were treated.!

As a minority , we do not demand respect , we just wish it to be  extended naturally as a sign of good faith and mutual courtesy. Especially for our children. Is that too much to ask for?

•  To teach respect to our kids , it is imperative to ensure that it is mutual respect. On all aspects relating to race , religion ,cultures and traditions of the diversity in our society.
• Respect is more meaningful when it is sincere and heartfelt . It is not a one way street.

Shows us here just how silly racism is with the illusory concepts of superiority and inferiority

http://dumdumtrivia.blogspot.com/2013/07/brown-eyes-and-blue-eyes-racism.html